Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo Path: news.media.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!att-in!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!dal3 From: dal3@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (dale.e.parson) Subject: February FAQ Part 2 of 2 Message-ID: Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 22:33:19 GMT Lines: 566 February, 94 comp.lang.logo FAQ, Part 2 of 2 PART II. 13: What does Piaget have to do with Logo? Seymour Papert's early work with AI caused him to think about what human intelligence is, which eventually led him to Geneva where he studied with Piaget from 1958 to 1963. The strong influence of Piaget's ideas on Papert's thinking is evident in the indexes of his two important books. Mindstorms lists about 20 Piagetian references and The Children's Machine about 24. No other references to persons in either book even comes close (most are four or less). Without diminishing the unique contribution of Papert's original thinking and application, it must be said that Piaget's ideas are such an integral part of Papert, that virtually everything about Logo has something to do with Piaget. One example will be my contribution: Piaget described stages of mental maturation through which children go with age and experience. Each stage is characterized by a type of thought that is subsumed and transcended by the subsequent stage. The stage of concrete operational thought, where most elementary and middle school children function, is characterized by thought that is logical when concretely embodied. In other words, children of about eight to 14 years old can usually functional logically when the problem is of a type that can be worked out with objects. Thinking about thinking, or metacognition, was believed to be a formal operational process, too abstract for concrete stage thinkers. Papert asserts that by providing the Turtle as an object to think with, Logo furnishes for ideas previously known only through abstraction, a concrete embodiment. Logo thus allows the learner to externalize his or her expectations or intuitive notions into the concrete form of a program, where the notions are accessible to reflection. [Linda Jones ] 14: How can kids use Logo for AI work? In Seymour Papert's book "The Children's Machine" (1993, P. 169) he relates a conversation he had with Piaget in the early 1960's about what would happen if children could play at "...building little artificial minds." Papert says he had been saying the essence of AI was to make theoretical psychology concrete. Since what children thrive on is concreteness Papert felt in principle some elementary form of AI could become a children's construction set. In Papert's view if psychologists could benefit from making concrete models of mind, why shouldn't children whose need was even greater also benefit? Although Papert and Piaget didn't think at that time the prospects for inventing a thinking machine were more than a "Gedankenexperiment," the fire was lit in Papert's eyes to make a shift from the philosophical to a real experiment. In the early '60's Papert was asking himself what do people do when they do AI. What Papert considered was that a piece of human mental activity like playing chess or seeing a cat can be transformed into a computer program that will do something similar. What follows is a discussion of whether the computer program "really" does what the human did. What Papert considered as plausible was that children doing some elementary AI would give them a new context for thinking about thinking. The accounts of building knowledge bases in research by Lippert (1988) in a physics domain suggest Paperts early concepts about metacognition (thinking about thinking) were correct. The earliest known attempts of children doing AI by Papert consisted of children studying a matchstick game called "twenty-one." In this game two players take turns in removing one, two, or three matches from a pile of twenty- one matches. The one who takes the last match loses. The children's immediate goal is exactly that of people making what would later come to be called expert systems. The knowledge base for the expert system would consist of rules that would make the computer act in ways similar to the children playing the twenty-one game. Although today Papert considers Lego-Logo applications of this early thinking a program by Murphy (1985) combines the technology of expert systems and Logo. Since Papert felt the existing languages LISP and FORTRAN were not suitable for elementary AI work with third or fifth graders he convinced a group at BBN (Bolt, Beranek an Newman) for which he was doing consulting to create a new language for children. One year later Logo was born and according to Feuerzig (1984) its functional characteristics were based on LISP. Although Papert says the path of this work followed psychologists who deliberately construct "inexpert systems" that make the program act like a "novice" and then pass through a progression of levels of increasing inexpertise instead of the "knowledge engineers" who build expert systems the groundwork for "Novice Knowledge Engineers" was laid. Today some work with Novice Knowledge Engineering and middle school students (seventh graders like the early Logo language implementations) is going on at Nova University and a post graduate student named James Gow. The work uses the Logo based Expert System shell created by Murphy and instructs children in building expert systems that act like students who solve fraction problems. One published paper exists in the proceedings of Eurologo 93 by James and he can be reached at gowj@novavax.nova.edu. [James Gow ] Electronic resources and Archives for Logo 15: Are there any archives for Logo? a. The Epistemology and Learning Group at MIT maintains an anonymous FTP server containing papers about Logo in education and LEGO/Logo. The address is cher.media.mit.edu (18.85.0.47). You will need a PostScript printer to print the papers. There is additional logo information there (text) in /pub/logo. There is no established archive for Logo programs, however the comp.sources.misc archives has some Logo code in Volume 12 Issue 11 generally abbreviated as V12i011 for some curves and music that Gerald Produced. They are for a Macintosh Logo and quite nice. o Besides this newsgroup, what other Electronic resources are there for Logo logo-friends, k12.ed.math Opportunities for Logo 16: What is LEGO/Logo? [NB, The official product trademark of LEGO is``LEGO tc logo.'' The ``tc'' in``LEGO tc logo'' stands for ``Technic Control.'' However to remain consistent with the preferred style, we will use LEGO/Logo for both concept and product] LEGO/Logo is a set of materials that allows the Logo language to control motorized machines built from LEGO bricks. In a way, LEGO/Logo is a throwback to the early days of floor turtles, but with an important new twist: in addition to writing the programs to control the "turtle," children can build the turtle itself! And much more: practically anything imaginable can be built from today's LEGO set, which includes gears, wheels, axles, motors, and sensors in addition to the basic building brick. Children have made electronic houses, candy factories, and robotic animals, just to name a few. LEGO/Logo allows children to be multimedia inventors---designing both hardware and software---and learn more about the technology by being involved from the standpoint being an empowered creator, not an intimidated user. Details from an Electronic copy of a LEGO Dacta announcement: LEGO Dacta, the educational division of LEGO Systems, Inc. (the "The Technic Control I (TCI) Technology Pack" for grades 7-12. This hands-on problem solving kit is designed to give students a better understanding of the role of computers and machines in today's technology. Specific student activities designed for the four major areas of Technology Education (ie., Construction, Communications, Manufacturing, and Transportation) are provided in the brand new TCI Resource Guide (item #959). This guide of over 300 pages contains forty hands-on activities for students, extensive teacher notes, selected building instructions, and many programming solutions. The TCI Technology pack can also be used with robotics, engineering, gifted and talented, artificial intelligence, physical science, and applied mathematics curricula, grades 7-12. The Technology pack includes two 1090 Building sets (each set contains 404 elements with individual storage trays and step-by-step building instructions for five computer-controlled models), the TCI Resource Guide, software disks, reference guides, computer slot card and cable (compatible with Apple and MS-DOS systems), and an interface box and transformer. This Technology Pack is suited for use by four students at one computer station. LEGO Dacta publishes "LEGO Connexions," a newsletter for LEGO Logo users. 17: How can I get LEGO/Logo? a. "LEGO tc logo" is sold by LEGO Dacta, c/o LEGO Systems Inc., 555 Taylor Road, Enfield CT 06082, (800) 243-4870. It is available for the IBM-PC and the Apple II series (IIe and IIgs) computers. For a full color, descriptive brochure, write: LEGO Dacta 555 Taylor Road Enfield, CT 06082 or call, toll free, (800) 527-8339. The new LEGO Control Lab is a computer interface for use with its 9 volt motor system. It provides a GUI for describing the sensor and motor interface box. It also has a Logo programming environment and a data acquisition/plotting package. The LEGO Control Lab is available through LEGO Dacta and should be coming out in the Fall of 1993. b. Paradigm Software sells the "Pearl Controller" which allows interfacing a LEGO/Logo kit sold by LEGO to the Mac. Phone contact is (617) 576-7675. c. Bots, Inc. sells a robotic controller for the Mac compatible with LEGO sensors and motors. Contact Len Erickson at Bots, 905 South Springer Road, Los Altos, CA 94024, (415) 949-2566. How do the schools use LEGO/Logo? I have used LEGO Educational products in my classes for two years now, and as far as I am concerned, they are the "...best thing since sliced bread!" For more information about how I use LEGO LOGO in the physics lab, drop me a line on most of this same "station" and I'll be happy to talk to you about it: Ron Revere= rrevere@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu. 18: What other robotic turtles or Logo-to-robot interfaces are there? There is also Fischer Technic, which is another construction element type system. They sell a computer interface, sensors, motors and other parts required for turtles for about the same prices at LEGO (maybe a little more expensive.) Fischertechnik has the Experimental Robot Kit. This kit contains modular construction, mechanical and electrical elements needed for a mobile robot or other computer controlled applications. The set contains two motors and several sensors including a photoresistor (for line following) and a temperature probe. The cost of the Experimental Robot Kit is around $360.00 (USD) including interface for use with IBM PC and Apple II computers; the Macintosh version is about $435. The WAO II Programmable Robot is a small circular robot with built-in memory and keypad, for entering and executing up to 256 control commands. The WAO II has two whisker-like bump sensors and is powered by two DC motors. Control commands can also be sent via a host computer (IBM PC or Apple II) through the use of an optional computer interface. The WAO II requires mechanical assembly (all electronics are pre-assembled.) The cost of the WAO II is about $85 (USD) the interface is about $40. It is built and distributed by company called OWI, Inc. The WAO II is also available from various mail order electronics retailers including: Edmond Scientific Company (609) 547-8880 (They also sell the Apple II interface) Unicorn Electronics (800) 824-3432 The WAO II is also available at some educational and hobby supply stores. Both the Fischertechnik Experimental Robot Kit and the WAO II are available through _Robot Explorer_ a robotics newsletter; the editor of the newsletter can be contacted via e-mail at: rgacote@world.std.com The phone number is: (603) 924-0679 Fischertechnik has several offices in several countries and education kits are available at some educational and hobby stores. [Karl R Altenburg, North Dakota State U., altenbur@plains.NoDak.edu] Valiant Technology of the U.K. sells the Valiant Turtle robot with interface cards and software for DOS, Apple II & Macs, compatible with LogoWriter & PC Logo according to a 1992 brochure. They also have some standalone turtles with built-in turtle geometry command language. Addresses in U.K. and distributors in N.A. as of May, 1992: Valiant Technology Ltd. John Crowley Myrtle House Youth in Motion 69 Salcott Road 5140 North Siesta Drive London SW11 9DQ Tucson, Arizona 85710 phone: 071-738 9595 phone: 602-760-0539 fax: 071-924 1892 fax: 602-760-0539 Jim Miller Stephen J. Rogers & Assoc. United Education Corp. Unit 2, 45 Basaltic Rd. 188 Industrial Drive Concord, Ontario Suite 432 L4K IG5 Elmhurst, Illinois 60126 phone: 416-660-9677 phone: 708-833-6222 fax: 416-660-3056 fax: 708-833-4909 MINI BOARD GENERAL INFORMATION This short document is an introduction to the Mini Board. This information is posted to the Internet newsgroup "comp.robotics" periodically or upon request, or may be mailed to individual who specifically requested information. This document may be distributed without restriction. The Mini Board is a miniature microprocessor-based controller board designed for control of small robotic devices. It may be used for any number of applications that require sensing with analog and digital electronic sensors and/or control of DC and stepper motors. It may programmed to operate "stand-alone" (i.e, running a program autonomously from its internal memory) or attached via an RS-232 serial line to provide sensing and control capability to a desktop computer. The Mini Board was designed at the MIT Media Laboratory. The printed circuit board design, electronic schematic, related software, and documentation are are copyrighted but may be distributed and used freely. This means that you may use the Mini Board for any application you like without having to pay anyone for its design, but you must leave the copyright information intact if you re-distribute boards and/or plans. ... Full documentation for the Mini Board is available via anonymous FTP to "cherupakha.media.mit.edu" (Internet 18.85.0.47). Go to "pub/miniboard" directory and begin by reading the README file located there. ** You will need a PostScript printer to print out the documentation files; the main document is about 60 pages long. ** If you do not have ready access to a PostScript printer, you may order a hard copy by sending a check or money order for $5 (U.S. dollars) made out to "MIT Epistemology and Learning" at: Epistemology and Learning Publications M.I.T. Media Laboratory 20 Ames Street Room E15-309 Cambridge, MA 02139 ... Greg Kulosa has established a mailing list for users of the Mini Board and other robot controller boards. To join the list, send an e-mail message with the Subject: line containing the following text: subscribe robot-board to "listserv@oberon.com". Then you will be automatically added to the list. To send a message to the people on the list, write e-mail to "robot-board@oberon.com". Please *DO NOT* send administrative things to the main "robot-board" mailing list address, as then everyone will get annoyed. If you have trouble, you can contact Greg directly at "gkulosa@oberon.com". [Fred Martin | fredm@media-lab.media.mit.edu] 19: Can Logo help the handicapped? Marvin Minsky reports that, ``In the LOGO project here, a graduate student, Jose Valente, was introduced to a severe CP patient who could only grunt and voluntarily move a few muscles. He was considered hopelessly retarded by the institution staff (age 17). Valente coupled him to a turtle geometry system with a head-pointer, and it turned out that he knew quite a lot of language and quite a lot of intuitive geometry; in a couple of years he had become a good programmer, was admitted to Amherst, and got a job in a registrar's office in a local university, etc.'' Staying up to date and Advancing the State of the Art 20: Related professional organizations 21: Conference listings 22: Publications a. The International Society for Technology in Education (ISTE), 1787 Agate Street, Eugene, OR 97403-1923, phone 503-346-4414, publishes *Logo Exchange*, a quarterly journal, and a dozen Logo books. ISTE also supports SIGLogo, a special interest group for Logo-using educators. b. The Logo Foundation, 250 West 57th Street, New York, NY, 10107-2603, Michael Tempel, president. michaelt@media.mit.edu or phone 212 765-4918, fax 212-765-4789. They publish *Logo Update* three times a year for free, also distribute Logo books, articles, videos and software. The MIT Internet Logo FTP site (cherupakha.media.mit.edu OR 18.85.0.47) is pleased to announce that it will be carrying PostScript versions of *Logo Update*, the thrice-yearly newsletter publication of the Logo Foundation. Volume Two, Number One (Fall 1993) is presently on-line in file pub/logo/logo-update/LUv2n1.PS.Z (compressed PostScript). It looks real nice fresh off of a laser printer; all of the graphics are intact. This issue is eight pages long, and includes a column written by Seymour Papert, a brief introduction to Microworlds by Eadie Adamson, a book review by Carol Sperry, and a discussion of the St. Paul, Minnesota Logo project by editor Michael Tempel. If you would like to receive hard-copies of the Logo Update, you may request a subscription by writing to the Logo Foundation, 250 West 57th Street, New York, NY 10107-2603 (phone 212 765-4918, fax 212 765-4789). Subscriptions are free, but tax-deductible contributions are welcomed. (If you have a PostScript printer and easy FTP access, why not save the Logo Foundation a little money and get your subscription electronically from cher.media.mit.edu.) I'll send out notes when back issues go on-line, and when new issues become available. [Fred Martin | fredm@media.media.mit.edu] 23: Books Logo philosophy: ---------------- Papert, Seymour: *Mindstorms* (Basic Books, 1980). Papert, Seymour: *The Children's Machine* (Basic Books, 1993). For late elementary through junior high kids: --------------------------------------------- Abelson, Harold: *Apple Logo* (McGraw-Hill) Birch, Alison: *The Logo Project Book* (Terrapin, Inc) Watt, Daniel: *Learning with Logo* (McGraw-Hill) For working with late elementary through junior high kids: ---------------------------------------------------------- Harel, Idit. *Software Design for Learning: Childrens Construction of meaning for fractions and logo programming*. This study was done with year 4 students and is both highly practical and also breaks new theoretical ground (by combining Papert's theories with Perkins and Vygotsky). Harper, Dennis: *Logo Theory & Practice* (Brooks/Cole, 1989). Kafai, Yasmin: *Minds in Play: Computer Game Designs as a Context for Children's Learning* (MIT Media Lab, 20 Ames Street Room E15-309 Cambridge, MA 02139). Solomon, Cynthia, *Computer Environments for Children* (MIT Press, 1986). A research document describing and comparing four different approaches to the use of computers in education, including Logo. *Nudges - Apple Logo Projects* by Bull, Riordon, and Tipps Holt, Rinehart, and Winston SBN 0-03-002737-3 *Exporations in Logo* (Creative Publications Sunnyvale ). A good starting point to maths puzzles and problem solving is Barry Newell's little book called: *Turtle confusion: Logo puzzles and riddles (Curriculum Development Centre, PO Box 34, Woden, ACT 2606, Australia). This one is a little gem with 40 puzzles at different levels, suitable from the beginner to advanced problem solver and logo user. I have used it extensively in 3-7 classes. [Bill Kerr, Paralowie R12 School, South Australia] For high school to adult: ------------------------- Harvey, Brian: *Computer Science Logo Style* (MIT Press) vol. 1: Intermediate Programming vol. 2: Projects, Styles, and Techniques vol. 3: Advanced Topics Friendly, Michael: *Advanced Logo* (Lawrence Erlbaum Associates) Boecker, H.-D., H. Eden, G. Fischer: *Interactive Problem Solving using LOGO*, (Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 1991, ISBN 0-8058-0305-X (cloth) / 0-8058-0306-8 (paper)) Burke, Michael, and L. Roland Genise: *Logo and Models of Computation* (Addison-Wesley) A shareware tutorial: _____________________ I have written a book specifically for teachers and teachers-in- training called ALL ABOUT LOGO. It's available as shareware. I have used many of the ideas in Brian's (see above) excellent book, and included the traditional graphics material. The format is also more "traditional" in that it includes suggested "Explorations" at the end of each of the 14 chapters. Version 1.1 (geared for Macintosh LogoWriter) is available by ftp from cher.media.mit.edu /pub/logo. I have written an update to this (version 1.2) and am working on version 1.3 which removes the last (I hope!) of the technical errors. Version 2.2 (geared for Apple II LogoWriter) is also available. I plan to replace Version 1.1 with version 1.3 and add version 2.3 to the ftp server in the next couple of weeks. I'd be pleased to send a hard copy version for your inspection if you like. [Dave Kressen dkresse@ctp.org] Using Logo to learn other stuff (mostly math) --------------------------------------------- Abelson, Harold & Andrea diSessa, *Turtle Geometry* (MIT Press) The classic text on the subject. Cuoco, Albert: *Investigations in Algebra* (MIT Press) Clayson, James: *Visual Modeling with Logo* (MIT Press) Goldenberg, E. Paul, and Wallace Feurzeig: *Exploring Language with Logo* (MIT Press) Hoyles, Celia, and Richard Noss, *Learning Mathematics and Logo* A collection of research papers about various aspects of the use of Logo in math classrooms. Lewis, Philip: *Approaching Precalculus Mathematics Discretely* (MIT Press) Prusinkiewicz, Przemyslaw & Aristid Lindenmayer, *The Algorithmic Beauty of Plants* (Springer-Verlag, 1990). Plant growth/structure modeling based on turtle geometry and L-systems, excellent illustrations. 24: Aside from comp.lang.logo, what other net lists/groups might be useful? There is a "logo-friends" mailing list at logo-friends@ismennt.is, subscription requests to logo-friends-request@ismennt.is, it hasn't seen much traffic since its inception in Summer, '93. It's sponsor is Petur Thorsteinsson (petur@ismennt.is) The Icelandic Network for Education Kopasker - Iceland There's comp.edu, where the original RFD for comp.lang.logo was posted. The home school mail list. home-ed@world.std.com Submissions for the list home-ed-request@world.std.com Subscription requests Home-ed is not exactly a hotbed of Logo activity, but it appears to be gaining momentum. Another, similar list is: The Learning List, learning-request@sea.east.sun.com A spin-off of the Home Ed list, The Learning List is concerned exclusively with child-centered learning, as espoused by the writings of the late John Holt. Subscribers must agree by the lists Charter, which will be sent upon request. Distance Educat. Data telnet sun.nsf.ac.uk or telnet 128.86.8.7 (Login: janet Hostname: uk.ac.open.acs.vax Username: icdl) Nat'l Education BBS telnet nebbs.nersc.gov or telnet 128.55.160.162 offers: Education BBS (Login: guest) ISAAC telnet isaac.engr.washington.edu or 128.95.32.61 offers: Info. System for Advanced Academic Computing, for IBM users. List of Lists ftp ftp.nisc.sri.com or ftp 192.33.33.22 offers: List of interest groups/email lists in /netinfo/interest-groups. [rslade@fraser.sfu.ca ] 25: Centers of Research WE NEED ENTRIES, FOLKS. AN ENTRY SHOULD IDENTIFY A CENTER AND A SUMMARY OF THE WORK GOING ON THERE.